beatrice_otter: Wonder Woman--Black and White (Wonder Woman)
[personal profile] beatrice_otter
It is an AWESOME movie.  Yes, there need to be more women of color.  Yes, the ending is ableist as shit.  But the rest of it is SO GREAT, HOLY COW YOU GUYS.

One thing that left me raising my eyebrows: that was a, uh, really Christianized version of Greek mythology.  Zeus as the father/creator/wise guy in the sky who loves humankind and wants what is best for them, instead of a really powerful dude who likes to party and bang as many hot chicks as he can find and occasionally toss around thunderbolts.  The whole idea of humans having been good and then tempted to sin and thus corrupted.  Ares as Satan/evil personified who needs to be destroyed for the good of humanity, instead of just a really powerful dude who likes to fight a lot.  Those are really, really, REALLY not authentic ancient Greek perspectives.  And it's not "Judeo-Christian" either, because from my understanding Jewish theology doesn't really have either Satan-as-a-personification-of-evil or humans-as-inherently-sinful/corrupted.

Now, as a Christian myself, I thought it was fine.  Except that it does play into the whole idea of Christian theology as the default religious system of the whole world, which then is why I have such trouble explaining to my parishioners that no, not everybody believes in sin/damnation/hell and salvation/heaven as a dualistic system into which everyone and everything fits.  Not that comparative religions comes up much, but it does come up occasionally, and it would be nice if they already had the idea that "not everybody understands the world the way we do."

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 01:30 am (UTC)
kass: white cat; "kass" (wonder woman)
From: [personal profile] kass
from my understanding Jewish theology doesn't really have either Satan-as-a-personification-of-evil or humans-as-inherently-sinful/corrupted.

Correct and correct. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 01:33 am (UTC)
tielan: Wonder Woman (WW - bracelets)
From: [personal profile] tielan
You know, I didn’t actually clue into that until an article pointed out. I just went “Wow, Ares got a really bad deal - again.”

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 03:03 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Huh, I guess I'm not as Christianised as I thought, because I didn't pick that up at all - it was just standard Comic Book Enemy Syndrome! It definitely wasn't Greek mythology, though - Ares is a frequent Wonder Woman enemy in the comics, but much more based in the Greek version than he was here.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 04:00 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Zeus the good guy and protector of humanity was just so strange, but your context helps. Though Zeus "breathing" life into clay and/or sleeping with Hippolyta to create Diana sounded more like him.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 04:50 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Oh, I definitely agree with your interpretation, but Diana in the comics is formed from clay with (in most versions) no intervention from Zeus at all, so I took that as the only slight nod to classical Zeus - not the "making her to save the world" part, but the "putting life into unusual things" part.

But there's a more immediate Christian interpretation for that too, lol.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 01:51 pm (UTC)
jesse_the_k: Ultra modern white fabric interlaced to create strong weave (interdependence)
From: [personal profile] jesse_the_k
Although there's a Jewish take on the "formed from clay" story as well: see The Golem

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-golem

That humans -- say comic book writers -- can create by gathering dust and chanting the words of life.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 04:05 am (UTC)
monanotlisa: Diana as Diana Prince in glasses and a hat, lifting the rim of the latter rakishly. HOT! (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
Same here -- I too merely thought this was a twisted and simplified mythology, Manichaean for Superhero Reasons, but mostly because no one at DC had either the interest or the knowledge in making a sophisticated canon of gods work in the confines of this movie.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 03:25 am (UTC)
laurajv: Don't give me any wild ideas! (Default)
From: [personal profile] laurajv
you are not wrong about the Christianized version of the mythology. I was like "what? I've never heard this....oh wait yes I have wait does this make Diana Jesus in this world?"

Buuuuuut really why I watched this movie was because I wanted to see the look on my 5 yr old daughter's face and to a certain extent I don't care about anything except that.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-14 12:54 pm (UTC)
oracne: turtle (Default)
From: [personal profile] oracne
That weirded me out, too. Hello! Ancient Greeks here! Well, filtered through Americans who don't care....

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-16 01:17 am (UTC)
laurajv: Don't give me any wild ideas! (Default)
From: [personal profile] laurajv
my son's reaction was "well, this must take place AFTER Percy Jackson" and then we had to explain about fictional universes to him.

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